The pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republican which is stands one nation under God with liberty and justice for all.
That's the loudest that has been since I've been here in 10 years.
Would the clerk please call the roll?
Here.
Here okay, in your packet, we have the agenda for today's meeting.
I would entertain a motion to adopt.
Seconded.
Okay, motion made seconded.
Um see anything they need to discuss.
Move around, comments?
You want to move the public hearing to the end or okay.
All right, uh all those in favor?
Okay, also in your packet were the minutes from the October 28th meeting.
I would entertain a motion to approve.
I'll make the motion to approve the notes from October 28th.
I'll second that motion.
Okay, so we have a motion made and seconded.
Uh any additions, deletions, corrections, further comment.
Okay, hearing none, all those in favor?
Okay.
At this time, 8 32, we will close, temporarily close the city council meeting, and we will open the public hearing to amend uh the animal ordinance to allow poultry.
Um okay, so just some ground rules here.
I'll give everybody um no more than five minutes to speak if you want to.
I don't want someone to speak for five minutes and then someone else say the exact same thing for five more minutes.
Um we don't need to hear regurgitated stuff back and forth.
If you do want to piggyback off of what the person in front of you just said, please say something like I agree with everything they just said.
However, I'd like to add this, this, and this.
Okay, because yeah, in all fairness.
So all right, well, let's get started.
Who wants to speak first?
Marshall.
All right, folks, good morning.
Um, most of you guys know me.
My name is Marshall Nelson.
I live right here in Scobie.
And I'm gonna kind of make the same pitch I made at the previous meetings on the uh idea of common sense chickens.
Um, I think the idea of common sense chickens the overriding factor is common sense, right?
We're not talking 70, 80 chickens and three-story coop in your backyard, rather.
I want to talk about the pros and cons and address some of the mistruths about keeping backyard chickens.
You have small numbers of chickens for you and your family, and I'm gonna draw off my personal experience, but also a lot of well-known facts that have been you know that are that are known in kind of a backyard backyard chicken community.
So, for pretty much my entire adult life and my entire childhood, I've had chickens, and that was not just you know on the farm, but also in the city.
When I was with my parents in Seattle, we had backyard chickens.
When my family and I live in Yuma, same thing, we had backyard chickens, and currently in Montana, we have backyard chickens, and again, it's not 50 chickens, it's you know, enough to provide some you know fun and excitement for your kids, and also you know, eat your your scraps and produce eggs.
And so I think there's a lot of benefits to it, but and we all know what the benefits are.
We all like having those farm fresh eggs.
We also like having uh you know fun pet for our kids to you know engage in 4-H, and also the production of good uh good compostable uh fertilizer, and then just chickens themselves are fun, they're entertaining, they're you know just as fun as any cat or dog, in my opinion.
And I think there are ways that they can be properly managed and properly owned where it doesn't propose uh an undue burden on your neighbors and on your community as you know as a whole.
And so I'd like to address first off some of the the arguments I've heard against chickens.
We all know what the arguments are for them, and that's been pretty much laid out.
Uh but I'd like to address some of the arguments against backyard chickens.
And again, we're talking common sense chickens, you guys.
We're not talking 300 animals in uh in an old shack or something.
We're talking about essentially pets, you know, pets with benefits.
Uh, I like to call it the three F's you know food, fun, and fertilizer, right?
So, first and foremost, chickens are smelly and dirty.
That's a myth.
That chickens spend most of their day bathing and cleaning themselves to maintain good hygiene.
Chickens do not smell animal waste smells when managed properly, no odors emanate from a chicken yard compared to dogs.
Chickens produce valuable waste that can be used as a valuable garden amendment.
Five hens produce five ounces of fertilizer compared to the average dog that generates 12 ounces of pathogenic unusable feces a day.
So, to put that in some perspective, two dogs will produce as much waste as 25 chickens, and unlike uh unlike chicken waste, you can't take your dog waste and compost it.
It's toxic, it's got bacteria in it.
If anyone's left a dog poop sitting in their lawn, they know what the effect is on their grass.
It kills the grass.
You have to dispose of it, you can't just leave it.
So, how do we dispose of dog waste in the town in the town of Scobie?
I would put that in everybody's ear, just think about when they talk about how to dispose of chicken waste.
I compost mine.
I compost mine with uh with leaves and uh cut grass and use it to uh mend my garden in the spring.
Easy enough.
Uh another myth: chickens hurt property value.
Again, that's falsehood.
Chicken keepers view their flocks and their yards as a source of pride, landscaping, and tending to their cleanliness.
There's never been any evidence supporting the claim that backyard chickens hurt property values.
In fact, the opposite is proven true.
A Forbes list of the top 10 U.S.
housing markets appreciating in value showed all 10 permit chicken keeping.
And again, this goes back to the whole responsibility aspect.
You've got 50 chickens in an old shed in the backyard, then yeah, that might uh you know depreciate your property.
But a well-tended, well-maintained, responsible, common sense chicken flock doesn't harm property values in the slightest.
Another myth: chickens are noisy.
Okay, falsehood and correct.
Hens are not ordinarily noisy, and roosters are no noisier in volume or frequency than barking dogs.
So to put this in some perspective, a barking dog at one yard creates 70, 110 decibels.
A lawnmower at one yard, 107 decibels.
And a rooster at one yard, approximately 48 decibels.
And right here in the town of Scobie, Sarah and I we walk the town almost every every night, you know, weather permitting.
Every block has multiple dogs, and you can literally hear the dogs from the street.
I can't go down any street or any alley without on every block having at least three dogs parking at me from my neighbor's yard.
So, again, and intermittent daytime noises are a normal part of uh living in any community.
And again, for when for noise disturbances, and Sheriff Lowe can probably address this when he speaks of it, um, you know, we'll address noise complaints like we address any noise complaint, whether it's a dog or a cat or a chicken or a lawnmower or piece of equipment or loud music or a loud party or whatever.
But we should address noise complaints on a case by case basis.
And any concerns by chicken noises should be addressed in the same manner of other noise complaints are addressed, barking dogs, etc.
etc.
And you know, unfortunately, it's impossible to live in a community that's completely quiet.
Every night we hear barking dogs, we hear diesel trucks, we hear jake breaks on the highway, uh heavy equipment, loud exhaust, you name it.
It is literally impossible to live in a completely quiet and silent community, as much as uh we would may all you know wish for it.
Another myth chickens require a lot of land.
Again, a falsehood.
Chickens require no acreage to be well kept.
Residents of all U.S.
major cities, including New York, Denver, Los Angeles, and Seattle, keep chickens with no acreage at all.
The number a family could respond to raise the backyard is ordinarily much more than the actual land they would need for it.
I can point to this in my own personal experience.
My when I was living with my parents in Seattle, we had chickens in our backyard.
And when I was living in Yuma, same thing, we had chickens right in our backyard.
They took up less space than the back third of this uh of this meeting room.
So again, no acreage, no farm is required, just a nice piece of your of your yard with a weight of container.
Another myth chickens attract rodents and predators.
That's falsehood.
Wild animals and ropes reside in every neighborhood and are attracted to food sources such as seed and wild bird feeders and garbage cans or cat and dog food left out for pets.
Concerns related to attracting rodents and predators should be addressed by restricting bird feeders and restricting the number of pet food containers left outside.
Animals such as bears, raccoons, foxes, and other animals, frequent backyards, regardless of whether chickens also occupy those yards.
Adult hens are also known to kill and eat small mice and vermin, including all manner of invasive insects.
Again, I can speak to this personally.
When I lived in Arizona and I had my flock of backyard chickens, I never saw a single black widow, never saw a single scorpion, creepy trolley, anything like that.
Because my chickens absolutely annihilated them.
I never had to worry about my kids getting bit by any kind of uh poisonous insect at all.
And this again was living right on the edge of the desert down in southwest Arizona.
And another point of contention that's often brought up is the animals themselves attracting predators.
Well, when we live in a town where we literally have entire dog car uh cattle carcasses and deer carcasses laid out at the landfill, that seems like kind of a weak argument.
Uh another myth chickens are kept only for egg production.
Therefore, limits on flock size should be calculated by the number of eggs a family need.
Again, it's a falsehood.
Chickens are kept for a variety of reasons.
Pets, therapy animals, hobby and showbirds, for age projects, and to preserve heritage breeds that are in danger of uh going extinct.
Uh egg laying can vary uh on the the age of a hen and the time of year.
Most hens don't start laying until they're five to six months old, and they stop laying at about three years old.
Five to six months is about the average time for a hen to begin laying.
And you know, again, they make really good pets, they're fun.
They're bad food in, good food comes out.
Table scraps and junk from your refrigerator goes in and they give you high quality eggs in return.
Hey, Marshall.
Yes, sir.
You're at your five minutes, but I don't think you could talk any faster, so it'll give you 30 more seconds.
Okay, but in that in that case, the timing was perfect because I'm literally at the end of my notes.
So I'll just say this in closing.
Um, it all comes back to the the responsibility aspect, being you know, a courteous, responsible chicken owner and a courteous uh and a courteous neighbor.
Again, we talked about chickens with common sense, and the common sense is gonna factor into it is gonna be the big the biggest part.
I think as long as we are all responsible and act like good neighbors, you know, there's a way that it can be done and not cause undue hardship.
Okay, that's my spiel.
Thank you very much, folks.
Okay.
So who wants to do that?
How do we go about asking questions to statements?
Is or is this just stand up and make statements?
No, you can use your time to say or ask whatever you want.
I think Brad, do you have your hand up?
Sure.
Um, uh how would we know some of the things?
I don't personally tell some people strongly one way or the other on this, but to build off of what Marshall said.
An idea that I had, because I'm on the zoning committee as well, that would maybe be a neutral ground for everybody, would be that the city allowed chickens under a conditional use permit.
And what that does is allows a case-by-case basis analysis by the city and an inspection of every permit to come in.
Why not?
So then the city knows what's going on there.
They are comfortable with it.
The conditional use permit requires a certain amount of neighbors around that area to be notified.
Let them have their input on it.
And it would also allow the entire town to have notification if the zoning committee changed residential zones to allow chickens to have input in it as well, because they would all have to have mailing on it, also.
So just to keep it short and sweet, a possible neutral ground would be allowing chickens with a conditional use permit, and that also allows the city to set the conditions for those permits and the number of permits that they want to grant, just like we've done with Air BMPs.
So that was my input.
Thank you.
Thanks for that.
Yeah.
I'd like to say I've been around livestock my whole life, and chicken shit stinks.
I'm just sorry, that's a fact of life.
Chickens and pigs, and everything brings rats and rodents.
We already got a rat problem in this town and with open feed and everything.
And I understand you said common sense, but not everybody's common sense.
And what are we talking?
I mean, if there's 500 people in town get 10 chickens apiece, you do realize that's a lot of chickens.
And I mean, I'm just saying, like my property, I shouldn't have to put up with a smell every single day.
And I mean, like I said, I grew up around chickens.
My parents have them for years, and there's always rats around, and there's always rodents, and it just smells.
And another thing is our landfill can't even take dead carcasses anymore.
So, what do you can do with these dead chickens?
You know, and then and you just got chicken crap piling up and piling up, you're gonna start throwing that in the dumpsters.
I mean, I'm I'm sorry, but chicken manure stinks, cow shit stinks, it all stinks.
And I mean, I'm yes, I'm in town, you're in town.
If you want chickens and you want livestock, I mean, there's a lot of farms that you can buy outside town, and I guess that's all I want to say.
Well, we've lived next to chickens over 10 years.
I do not smell.
Never seen a rat.
You know, I just I'm kind of like what you said.
Common sense, you know, just a small little bit, keep them confined, and pick up the crap.
Okay, Carolyn.
Hi, I'm Kylan.
I'm sure you all know me.
Um so with the whole stench issue, um, I can kind of understand that coming from where I have grown up, right on the edge of town there with cows and all that.
Um, but I I do wonder how many chickens create that level of stench.
Um, because I can't imagine that it's gonna be, you know, 500 people in Scobey getting 10 chickens.
The people that are gonna get chickens are probably the people that are gonna take care of them.
You might have a you know, a household here or there that novelty thinks it's a good idea, but it won't, you know, they won't uh continue with it, I would assume the uh people that will have them will probably be taking good care of them because they're putting in the effort to get the chickens in the first place.
Um there's one more thing I did um want to add is um I saw a point online at one point about public health issues and while I can kind of understand the idea of that it just realistically um it doesn't really make sense um the US has 10 to 15 million backyard chickens and the chance that any given backyard flock gets affected is less than 0.02% and I can source that for you guys if you'd like um it just it doesn't seem like it would be that much of an issue uh when it comes to like the enforcement of the ordinance that I guess I don't really know where that would fall.
Um I do like Brad's idea of the zoning thing.
Uh I don't know if how much of a burden that would put on law enforcement because um like we said previously noise complaints are always gonna be noise complaints, whether it's music, whether it's music, whether it's animals, whether it's you know, and chickens really aren't the loudest animal.
I mean compared to cows, I would say.
Um pretty sure that's all I have.
Okay, thanks, Kevin.
Um I'm gonna pause you right now.
I want to in case anybody walks out, I would like to get a show of hands.
So if you are for city counsel passing this ordinance, please raise your hands.
There's a whole and we have some people.
I know, I know there's some out in the hall, so we'll count them.
Come on next so they can count.
There was two out here.
Does it matter if they live in town or not?
Because it does.
Need to be members of the voting, registered voting public.
In the city.
Okay, if you're against, please raise your hand.
Again, this this is just or wait, sorry, yes.
If you're against chicken, I thought you were doing the voting thing.
Yeah.
Yes, I don't know.
Okay.
Is that what the voting for the people here was for?
Like, hey, these are the people that showed up because I mean it is 848 in the morning on work day.
There are a lot of people that are at their jobs, so they can't raise their hand.
Yes or no.
So is it going to be you're looking at the comments, the facts, the people that showed up?
Or are you going to be looking from one spectrum to the other and making a vote?
No, so we're council.
So I can speak from my point of view.
So the last I suppose month I've been kind of polling people.
I guess you could say I'm councilman for Ward 1, which is on the west side of town.
So every chance I get somebody that's on the west side of town and the conversation comes up, I talk to them about it.
I'm trying to keep my personal opinion out of this all together because I figured that's why I'm here for the voice of the ward of the area that I represent, right?
Um, so I have been polling people, asking them how do you feel about it, what's your viewpoint on it.
So honestly, the the people in the room here, um, I I love hearing all the opinions because there's great arguments on both sides of the table for it.
But personally, the raising of the hands does nothing for me because I'm polling the people that I represent, I guess per se, and other people that I don't represent.
If the conversation comes up and they're from the east side of town, I'll talk to them about it and see what your view is on it.
So, from my point of view, no, the raising of the hands doesn't do anything.
So, and a little bit of history with that too, is um when I got on the council in 2015, our meetings were at 2:30, and from what I understand, they were at 2:30 for the last since you started, probably since Sonya started.
So we decided let's change meetings to 630 at night or six, whatever it was, after hours.
We did it that way for what a year, roughly.
Nobody showed up, nobody showed up to our meetings.
So I get it, it's 8:30.
Um, you know, and and these letters, we must have 10-12 letters here.
I guess I didn't count them all, but uh um some of them are people who are retired, some are people who are working.
Uh, one in particular uh spoke to me directly, said that they were gonna be out of town, so they submitted a letter.
So that's why we put out there, you know, mail, drop off a letter, email a letter, whatever.
So um, yeah, we're taking all that into consideration as well.
Um, but before I let uh anyone else speak, I would here.
Is Ryan still out there?
I invited the game warden for our area to come.
You guys, I would like to ask him his opinion.
And then if you guys have specific questions for him with his uh area of expertise, um I'd let you do that.
So Ryan, if you if you have any opinions one way or the other, I'd like to hear it.
My name's Ryan, honey game warden.
I've been doing it a long time.
I was a cop in Havre before that, and they had chickens.
Um I am totally neutral on it.
I could care less if there's chickens or not.
You guys may know my mom's the crazy chicken lady.
She's got hundreds of uncountable amounts.
Um there is a few, I guess, facts.
They are chickens are a prey animal.
They will draw predators into town.
Um that's just a fact.
Whenever you add more prey to a habitat, which is the town, I guess would be classified as a habitat, you're gonna have more predators.
So I don't I know Plentywood's really struggling with coyotes right now.
Um you could see an uptick in that.
Um the biggest thing I uh I guess I see as being in law enforcement for 30 years is there has to be a enforcement component to it.
Um there there's a 90-10 rule we use.
90% of the people are good and honorable and follow the law.
There's the 10% that say screw it.
You're gonna have that in any society.
So Clint will probably have to speak to this more than I do, but most everyone in this room is gonna have beautiful chicken coops.
Their chickens will be well taken care of, there will be no problems, but there will be the 10% that don't follow any of the rules, and it's gonna become a problem for the community and the neighbors.
There's gonna have to be a vector there that chickens.
I mean, I I don't know how the city would like to address that or the sheriff's office, but you are gonna have problems.
I mean, that's just human nature.
Um I guess that's really all I have to say about it.
Um, if you have any questions, I'm not a chicken person, I don't have them, I don't even like to eat them.
Um so but I do I have dealt with the well, chickens aren't necessarily wildlife, but they're very close to a pheasant or a grouse, which I deal with a lot.
So if you have any questions, I can answer them or try to.
So anyone have any questions for I uh going off of what Ryan's saying, um, I this is what I can say because I take all the calls.
I don't get calls on chickens, I don't get calls on barking dogs, I don't get calls on any of that.
But what I do get calls on is I get calls on coyotes and everything that are coming into town, and we do get quite a bit of calls on that.
So um kind of going off of that, you do um off of what he's saying back here of um you add up how many chickens start going into yards, then you're we're gonna start getting more calls on coyotes coming into town, and I do see that happening.
Just for the record, fish wildlife and parks, we do not manage coyotes.
So if you have a coyote in your yard, I'm not the person to call.
Well, we always send out the sheriff.
Yeah.
Exactly.
But I we don't that's that's just facts.
We don't require a license to hunt coyotes, therefore, we don't make any money on the management of coyotes, so therefore we do not handle coyote calls or fox or skunk or coons.
So I mean I will help.
I'm more than willing to help, but I mean it's not if we get hundreds of coyotes in town, I'm not the guy to call.
So Ryan, when the chickens are totally contained, it would be a job for the coyote or the fox or whatever predator to get to them.
Is that still I mean that doesn't come into play?
Um you're probably not gonna get a lot of predation on chickens as long as they're enclosed, but just um the noise.
I mean, they don't make a lot of noise, but you I mean coyotes, predators have extreme hearing, and you know, they're it's still it's still gonna draw them into town.
It's not necessarily you're not gonna see it any probably depredation on your coyote or on your chickens as long as they're enclosed, but I I guess one thing, okay.
So a few years ago, well, probably 10 years ago, I had hundreds and hundreds of pheasants and chuckers in a huge bird pen.
We trained dogs with them, and we we seen weasels, we've seen skunks.
I mean, they just bring, I mean, there's commote.
I mean, town maybe not so much but like chickens they flop their wings and do chicken stuff and predators I mean they see that from miles away it's no different than like a a a fishing that's why you use a bright shiny fishing where it attracts fish to your deal and when you have chickens flopping the wings or what are they dusting themselves is that what it's called the fancy term dust bath yes yes you know they're gonna be there's gonna be draw attention to that by predators um but as far as in you know killing your chickens I I they if they're enclosed in a good deal you mean you won't lose chickens but it it will still draw them into the well even if they're a hundred percent contained a predator can still find a way to get in it's not like okay I mean there's no way to like unless you put them behind a cement can I ask you how many motors has any predators gotten into yours no I've never I've never seen a predator the whole time in my yard in my area antiqual I'd like to tail off of what Ryan was saying though because I actually I went to school for the same thing Ryan's been played as for wildlife biology and it's it's not that the the coyotes are gonna get in and kill the chickens is that it's gonna attract the coyotes into town because of the chickens.
And what about the small dogs and it's the same cats that are it's it's that are running loose in the channel I I agree that all I'm saying is it's an added it's an added thing that will attract them.
It might not, they might not, you know, if if there's less chickens or no chickens, they might be around the outskirts of town, right?
But if there's chickens in town, they're gonna come into town to find the chickens.
They are it's the bottom line.
I'm gonna add two cents off of that.
I have small dogs.
I have a six-foot privacy fence, there are no gaps in or out.
However, if predators are in town, which they already are, I've had deer in my front yard, I've had coyotes, fox, coons in my back alley, hawks, all of this, like we're talking.
Not saying we're going to have 500 people with chickens in town.
That's not anything worth even talking about.
But if we add more, it is going to bring more in.
I have small dogs, and I like to be able to trust that I can let them out in my enclosed backyard and they're safe.
But if we are gonna end up having more predators in town, how do I know that my animals that I care for that I enclose and take care of are going to be safe if there's hawks flying around that could pick up my dogs.
I'm not putting a coop up to keep my dog safe, but it's also going to be drawing predators in that could take my dog.
I think that can happen no matter where you're at.
Okay, but I'm going off of, I'm not saying this is going to happen.
I'm just saying we're increasing the predators in town, which we already have.
I can't say definitively that it will increase predators, it's just possibility.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, I mean it's just the common thing.
I I guess the the best way to look at it is we have fish and gate meetings all the time, like this, and nobody shows up.
But if we offer donuts and snacks, more people show up.
Yeah, you so I guess that's your kind of your chickens or the donuts and snacks.
I mean, more people are gonna show up when there's animals are lazy by nature, and that's why we see so many coyotes and uh skunks and stuff move into town, especially this time of year, because eating a little wiener dog is a lot easier than chasing a rabbit down out in the field.
Um so that that's why the beer they you know uh totally off, but you know, the more you have your dog food cat food out.
I mean, it's just easy meals for them animals, they get acclimated to it, and that's why they're in town is because life is easy.
So plenty, you said plenty with an issue with coyote.
Yes.
And I've talked to other plenty with people where they said they've seen a coyote carrying a cat down the street.
Yeah.
They do not allow chickens, right?
I don't know.
I'm pretty sure they don't.
So they currently allow chicken.
Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.
I mean, I can't say definitively that yeah, there's gonna be three or thirty percent more coyote.
I mean, it's just there is that probability that when you uh put a prey species into a ecosystem, there's a higher chance of predators coming.
Mike, you've had your hand up for a while.
Yes, and what are the results of your polling?
Um from my area, yeah, in in ward one, I would say probably the of the people that I pulled in my side of town on the west side, probably it's probably about 75% don't want them and 25% do from the people I've talked to.
That's about the same that I've been experiencing.
I haven't heard from either one of you.
Well, it's not our job.
People I've talked to.
I don't I don't have to reach out to you.
It's your responsibility as a citizen if you have an opinion to reach out to us.
Um from a letter that we received that was not nice.
Um but I would like I would like answers on it.
Um and since Ryan's here and Seth is here, uh, one of the questions is do these owners realize that tractor supply is putting mRNA in their chicken peak?
And if so, do they purchase the feed from this source?
And to add to that, I would like to know.
Um, some people have brought up the disease factor, avian flu, whatever, what have you, how how transmittable would that be to humans and other pets?
So um there's that, not necessarily from me, but just from what I've been hearing.
And then I want to specifically address why would these people deliberately build a coop knowing that it was a violation to the law?
In Scobey, we are such a wonderful community.
Many, many, many things are built, aren't they, Steve?
That people do not come get a permit for.
So it tends to be a community where people uh ask forgiveness instead of permission.
So I'll just leave that where it is.
Um at least we have people here to ask permission.
Nikki, you can I add to your mRNA comment about the feed or from the letter or whatever?
Um, I feel like these people aren't getting chickens to sell the eggs necessarily, so that would kind of be up to their own um risk or whatever you want to call it, um, versus finding organic feed or however they want to go about that.
Um, I mean, obviously, if they're like um marketing their eggs or something like that, I think that would be a lot more relevant to it.
Um, but that I personally I think that would be up to the individual for their own consumption.
Can I say my little piece so that I can leave?
Okay, so um agree with Kylan right there because my opinion, my my proposal does kind of go off what Brad says.
I would like to propose that there is an application and there's rules and there's a vetting that happens with it, and then there is a cap on how many hens that you do.
I would say no to roosters, but I think that we need a set number for hens.
In that set number, do I believe that that's gonna be enough for a business in Scobey to sell any eggs?
No, like my family, we eat over a dozen eggs in one setting.
I'm a family of five.
Um, I do not have chickens.
I came before to a previous meeting years ago and asked for it.
Um we have we do not have chickens.
I would love to have chickens, and the reason for us is because we used to have chickens out on the farm.
So it was a teaching educational experience for my kids.
They'd go in there, um, they would help clean, they would have pick the eggs.
Um, and it's more, you know, going into that poor age as well that Marshall has touched on, too.
I think that it would be a good idea as long as there is stipulation.
So I'm not saying that everyone go out and then you know, purchase 30 hens to put in their backyard.
Also, with this, if it does pass, how many are we actually going to see have these chickens?
Like, I don't foresee really probably anybody in my neighborhood more than maybe a couple houses, you know, that that will go out and buy them because it takes a lot of work.
It does, it takes a lot of money up front.
We have to build or purchase a coop.
Steve has to come out with the permit, get that done.
You gotta make sure all that's there.
Then you're gonna buy these hens.
You're buying a hen or a little chick, and what are they?
At least three bucks a pop, I would say, and then you're gonna purchase for feed.
You're gonna take care of them.
Do you have a heating lamp out there in the winter?
Like, I mean, there's certain things that you're going to spend when it comes down to it, like you're spending more money on that little hobby than anything.
Like, that's like kind of what it comes down to.
But like, what can we learn from it?
What can we take away from it?
My kids are gonna get that experience from it and that education, and then they can continue and they can learn how to take care and have a job basically.
So that is my two steps, but I am gonna leave.
Sorry, guys, I have to go to work.
Thank you.
Um, to be fair to Rhonda, she did call me and express her support for chickens.
So I did hear from her.
Steph.
I have more questions than I do statements, but I'm going to go off of Brad.
I 100% agree with his proposal.
I agree with what Lindsay said 100%.
The main question is now are chickens legal at this point in time in city limits.
No, no.
Okay.
Has anyone ever been fined for the chickens that are in city limits?
No.
No.
Okay.
So let them.
They have them.
It's not a problem.
But yet we have created a problem.
We've split community.
We've split friendships over something so minuscule.
Paula takes very good care of her chickens.
I have never heard any complaints about them.
I have heard there's currently a house for sale next to someone who owns chickens.
People have looked at said property.
As they're looking at said property, they realize, oh my god, there's chickens next door.
Potential buyers have declined that property because of chickens.
Do they smell?
Do they make noise?
I don't know.
I'm not living there.
But that just goes to show it does have some impact on your property value.
Like I said, Paula, you take good care of your chickens.
Zero complaints.
I understand you guys have chickens.
Didn't even know that until all of this came up.
So it must not be a huge issue.
But there are so many questions.
There's other issues in the city that aren't being taken care of.
So why are we going to police one more thing?
Common sense law.
Not everybody has common sense.
We all know that.
I live in a neighborhood where a certain family who does not have common sense owns several lots around me.
Let's say this person decides they want chickens.
This person has been disastrous with dogs, cats, everything already.
Chickens is going to only make it worse.
Again, enforcement.
They said contact the sheriff's department.
So obviously, that in a sense right there, we've already crossed the well, whose problem, who's taking care of it.
So again, what Brad said, zoning making a registration and having someone go and look and sorry, I lose my train of thought because I have so many going on.
I just honestly have more questions about how it will be policed, how it will be taken care of.
And then if issues arise of, yes, there are a lot of stray dogs, yes, there are a lot of stray cats.
Let's say a coop has an easy entrance, god forbid, and a cat, a coyote, a fox, a dog, something gets into it.
Another problem at hand for the city.
All of us involved.
Someone has chickens and they get loose, God forbid.
Someone's dog gets loose, eats a chicken.
Who's at fault?
Was the chicken improperly contained?
Was the dog improperly contained?
There's I could care less if you want chickens.
I understand it.
But in the sense of rural community, we are still a city limit.
I don't know if the fairgrounds is technically city limits or not.
Is there something that possibly we could start a chicken community and be like, hey, start a coup.
Everyone would take part, make it a club.
Then you can also have it available for each kids.
It can be a community of people helping one another.
I don't have chickens.
I had chickens growing up on the farm.
I absolutely hated taking care of them.
Didn't enjoy it one bit.
Others enjoy it.
It's their right, their hobbies.
I have my hobbies that they wouldn't enjoy.
But there are so many questions, and that's my part here is yes, I'm only limited to five minutes.
I would love to be able to sit in this community right now with these people and ask all these questions and have answers, but Lord knows we all don't have that much time.
Stephanie, on the problem you think enforcing if a chicken gets out or a dog gets somebody's chicken, or you know, somebody gets in there and gets their chicken.
I in my opinion, that's on the chicken owner.
That's not on the city of Scobey.
Yeah, and it wouldn't.
You know, that's on the chicken owner to take care of them.
That's like if your dog is by someone driving by, not a city problem.
It sucks, but it's so can I can I interject really quick?
So on what you said about, you know, doc yeah, the dog gets a chicken or whatever, and the city and the city, what the city has to handle and what the sheriff's office has to handle.
As uh as at on a as being a person uh somebody that lives in the city, and I think what people need to understand is when a situation happens like that, if a dog got a chicken, then you need to call the sheriff's office, and you need to call it but people don't do that when a dog is barking and they're it's annoying and it's becoming excessive, call sheriff's office.
But people don't do that, or talk to the person.
Exactly.
You're not gonna call the mayor and say, Hey, this dog is barking and it's barking and it's barking.
I'm pretty sure Morgan's gonna get like, but what am I supposed to do about this?
According to your stats, I get more calls than you do, apparently.
You do you do I think you do get a lot of calls that are um unnecessary, and um it you know, and if it's a it's a building problem, somebody's building something that probably shouldn't be built, call the city.
That is where they come into play.
But more people need to start calling the sheriff's office when it is a problem between um you and your neighbor, you know, like you're you guys are arguing.
That's when you call the sheriff's office, and um people are not doing that, so that is and and I I I don't have any accounts of that in my records.
Um probably don't know to call you, they probably just think well, I don't want to bother them.
Well, that's what we're there for.
Yeah, that is what we are there for, and that is what we will have to do.
That is what I have to do.
Did you call the sheriff's office then, Stephanie, to ask about the ordinance?
Okay, and you were told it was the city needed to make a decision on it?
They said we no, it was I talked to Donna directly, and it was well.
So I think I need to clarify what I was trying to convey to you is if it was an inspection situation.
That is what I was trying to convey to you, and I think I misspoke.
So if it was something like in a a building inspected, like to inspect the property.
But we can't just walk.
Where is Clint?
One right here.
Hello?
Okay.
Could you please ex explain a little better because I don't want to miss the if there's a call that comes in, or there's a complaint that comes to the mayor, we don't receive it.
The complaints never happened.
I don't know where to go.
No complaints about Marshall and Sarah and Paula.
No complaints about chickens.
So when the when it came up is are the complaints coming in, what do we have to do?
Shauna asked me, what do we do about inspecting chickens?
I can't go and climb anybody's backyard.
That's illegal in the state of Montana.
I need a warrant to jump that damn fence.
I'm not going to go charging into your house to see if you've got 25 cats.
I'm not gonna do it.
I can't do that.
I have to.
I can you know 50 feet, is it where the FCC says no one has the right for privacy?
Does Scobey buy a drone to see who's got chickens.
I can't do that kind of stuff.
I can't jump people's yards.
Now if people are complaining about chickens that are in their yard or their neighbor's yard, then we can go knock on a door.
But as far as like building size, uh sheriff's office isn't in charge of the house price, the shed size, the lot size.
That goes in the city.
So what I think the complaint was, and not the complaint, but the misunderstanding that we've had here, is when Stephanie proposed the question to Shauna, Shauna asks me who's gonna inspect it, or who's in charge of the chicken ordinance?
I told her, I says, we'll let her know that if she's got a complaint, she can take it to the city.
And I figured it was concerning the passing of a city bill or the city ordinance for chickens.
And that's probably where that miscommunication came.
And it got transferred up to you, Morgan, and you're like, well, it's not my job to do to investigate chickens, that would be the sheriff's office.
So, but or not to deal with the complaint about chickens at the sheriff's office.
So that miscommunication has already started.
And that's where I never asked to be the spokesperson.
I just have a lot of people that come to me and voice their opinions.
And that's where I started just asking the questions.
Is it currently legal?
No.
Are there already people in town that have them?
Yes.
Has anything ever been done?
Any fines?
No.
I just started asking questions because this was all coming up.
Okay.
So it's already.
Who do you talk to more in life?
You'll talk to what?
The doctors will explain everything you want to a doctor, a counselor, a bartender, a hairdresser.
You're gonna call to the person that's you're gonna feel that's gonna be able to do something.
A lot of complaints go to the city.
A lot of complaints go up into the city.
A lot of complaints go to the commissioners.
I was just told about a complaint last night that there's numerous people complaining.
First time I'd ever heard about it, and that was at 4:30.
So you're not the commissioner.
Um point of information, Mr.
Mayor.
Uh I would like to hear from the No's here.
Are they hard nose or are they amenable to something like Brad brought up?
I'm a hard no.
And the main reason is I got dogs and cats, and I don't want a dog, and Kathleen was using that as an example.
And then they're in my yard cropping all over, and I I mean, I'm against that.
So if these chickens get out, which they will, and they're in my yard, you know, what what kind of a deal do I get against that?
I have no problem people getting chickens, but I don't want them in my yard.
And in fact, if you're gonna have chickens, I think you're a step ahead.
You almost need an animal control officer to deal with that.
Because we got problems right now, we're not dealing with I love dogs, I have dogs, they are in my backyard.
My front yard is fun, beautiful, nice grass, nice flowers.
It currently has dog shit in it, and it's not from my dogs.
It has cat shit in it, and I don't have cats.
I spend money on flowers and my flowerheads constantly being dug up by new related cats, dogs, whatever.
So then, yeah, like I said, my main issue is there's already so many other problems in the town that we're constantly battling.
Let's not add one more.
Yes, I do agree with what Brad said.
That sounds like a perfect safe route to go with.
But then again, who are we gonna have a clear line of this is who you contact, this is who you complain, this is who enforced this.
So what we're this ordinance that was drafted roughly what, eight years ago or how 10 years ago now, the last time this uh idea made it this far.
So the city, so in this, assuming it passes just like this.
The city basically has some teeth in there.
So, first of all, you have to file a permit just to see if you can qualify to have chickens.
Marshall, I don't know if you guys even have room for a coop right now based on current zoning regulations.
So this might pass, and you may not be able to legally have chickens.
Um this may affect uh several other people as well.
Um there's gonna be an application process.
So let's say this passes, we'll pass it again next meeting, 30 days after that, it would pass for basically at the first of the year.
So everybody would have to file, whoever wants chickens, would come file.
And we're I'm thinking, I don't vote, I just offer my idea.
Um, a hundred dollar application fee, and it'd be a hundred dollar renewal every year due from January 1st to the 15th.
We would have five days to go inspect, and if it's out of compliance, then there would be a penalty.
You'd have 30 days.
Again, I'm throwing numbers out there that that was my idea.
You'd have 30 days to fix your discrepancy.
If you don't, then you can be fined X amount per day until you either get rid of the chickens and/or the coop or whatever.
So we are going to inspect it ourselves.
Um it's not gonna be a sheriff's department responsibility, it's just simply gonna be us, and um and we're doing this so the person who wants chickens can have chickens, but so the person who doesn't want chickens doesn't have to deal with the person who maybe has chickens that aren't managed very well, and the number that I'm thinking is six, not eight, not five.
Again, that's the mayor speaking right there.
I think you have a very good idea and so much more than so.
If they're out of compliance in July, this problem is it the orders.
So you mean so so they got inspected and then they do something.
We would, I guess we would find them.
Yeah.
Are people gonna have six chickens in January and have eight to ten in March?
Probably the ten percent that that we're worried about.
There's gonna be ten households that have chickens in Scobey.
One of them's gonna ruin it for the other nine, and then there's gonna be no chickens.
Paula had an idea about well, maybe we can police ourselves, and that's not exactly how you said it, but if.
But if you chicken people who have chickens realize one of yours is not abiding, you can do a little, I'll just say vigilante justice to make sure they don't ruin it for you because that's what's gonna happen.
It's history repeats itself.
Yeah, and that's where the common sense, like 90/10, like you guys had mentioned that other 90/10, there's gonna be that one that just ruins it and it sours.
And that's the bad part.
Like I said, she takes great care of hers.
I don't want that one person to come sour the whole community and take it away from the people that have done well.
I really think that the amount of effort, if you know, these the application and everything else were put into place.
I think the amount of effort is gonna deter people who aren't going to be responsible about it.
I think accidents will happen.
Chickens might get out, you know, dogs get out, cats get out.
The only thing that doesn't is pit, probably.
So it's I just I don't know.
I guess I just don't see it as being as big of a problem as it might be with more lacks regulations, I guess.
Can I just ask why we're promoting it now?
People already have chickens and it's against the law.
But common sense already is like we don't break the law, right?
So why is it such a big deal if you already have a because you know what?
I'm not gonna speak for the council, but I'll speak for myself.
And I've I've purposely never been in Paula's yard or in Marshall's yard.
Um, have we known there's chickens in town?
Yes, I've been told for the last 10 years there's been chickens.
I've never verified myself, um just because um they got turned in by somebody who had different animals in town and wanted to be treated fairly.
So that's what happened here.
That's why we're here.
Okay, simply for that.
I was looking the other way.
If a dog does eat a chicken, they're gonna keep eating chicken, and then you'll have to put it down.
Very well.
Yeah, yes, it got into the chicken coop, and coyotes can do the same thing.
Yeah, it gets that take gets that taste chicken, they get taste of the blood, and then you have to put that dog down because they're gonna keep looking for them.
And coyotes, foxes, weasels, all the same kind of animal-ish, they'll do the same thing, and they can all dig underneath the fence.
Yeah.
Can I add something, Morgan?
Yeah.
Just from nothing to do with law enforcement, but I what I've seen in life is if this passes, you're gonna get a huge ton of people wanting to do it because it's new and it's gonna be fun, and it's gonna weed itself out over time.
You're gonna have the people that are truly dedicated to their chickens that are gonna keep doing it.
You're gonna get the people that are doing it because oh, this is gonna be neat.
They're gonna weed themselves out.
So I think you're probably looking at having some problems to start with, but I think for the most part, they will it will take care of itself over time.
Because if you don't really like your chickens and it was like you got them for the kids, and it they they are a lot of work, and I think you're gonna, but that's where I said you need that law enforcement component in there, where if you're doing have people just not take care of them, you're gonna have to have a uh an avenue to go in there and I I don't like to say this because I'm not a big government person, but you're gonna be have to be able to remove them chickens that problem from the area, and I don't know how you know if they're if they're you you can seize them chickens as fruits of the crime if they are violating city ordinance, so there is ways to address it.
So that's a lot of work for these guys who are busy enough the way it is.
And if we are going if the law enforcement's going in and seizing chickens, and the number of chickens is set at per se, mayor, like you were saying, six.
Are we going to combine the six animals into one collective group, or are we going to separate them like we do stud horses?
Because cows, I think it's what, twelve.
You have to have twelve or more cows out, you can find up to like I think it's twelve at one time.
Because if I gotta find one person for six chickens for a public nuisance, that's 285 dollars a chicken.
That's a public nuisance charge.
And the only reason it's that high is because the city has adopted the fee schedule from the state of Montana to correlate with the city ordinances.
And does anybody have a backup plan if we have to seize chickens where they're going?
Is your mom willing to take them?
Because we can't, I mean, we don't have anywhere to even store cars.
So I think the owner should be able to just butcher that chicken and yeah.
Well, I'm just saying when if they don't want to stick around in the butcher, like we it always goes into something else, like to please someone that's right at the VF.
There's always something else.
Well, I feel bad, Steph, like you said, tearing the community apart, friends aren't friends anymore.
That's that's horrible shit.
Yeah, that's like politics.
This shouldn't be like that.
No, really and they take care of the monitor and that and to me that's what this is all about is setting the ordinance.
But we have an ordinance.
That's the problem.
And I and I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but there's an ordinance in place right now.
And it's already not followed.
Right.
And that's the that's the hard thing about this.
And and I agree, is why now?
Well, it's because the city did have to do something with a person that did have foul in town, and he wasn't raising them for eggs.
There was foul in town that the city had to deal with, and he he complied, but he said, What about these people?
And so then we have to do something about it.
Right.
It's even that's the enforcement or I'm just I know it's apples and oranges, but it's just like dog and cat license.
You guys aren't enforcing them ordinance either, because I mean how many dogs and cats are running around here with no license.
We only have 45 dogs in town.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I there's 48 of them on my street.
So I'm just saying.
But I'm you you see what I'm saying.
I'm not it's just that we're not already enforcing the ordinance we already have on there.
Now you're bringing a whole nother deal in there, and it's like, yeah, we're gonna enforce it, but we're not even enforcing what's already on the books.
And I guess that's what bugs me more than anything.
I think you're opening a can of worms because then it'll be what about all the dogs?
Because you get complaints about it.
Well, I've already made the comment.
This is gonna be this is probably gonna open Pandora's Box.
But I mean, you hear about it, you hear about it, I hear about it.
The community talks about you walk by a street and you can smell cat from a house.
I don't even own cats.
No, but you're gonna open a can of worms, and then people will start saying, What's the ordinance on that and who's gonna enforce it?
And I think we too have to admit where we live.
You know, I live close to the fertilizer plant, you did too.
And we in your house, Bo had chickens, and my neighbor across the alley had stuff piled everywhere.
There was more problems with the stuff on the corner.
Bringing in rats and rats, skunks, rats than those chickens that were enclosed.
And then we live close to the dump grounds.
We live close to the museum grounds, we live close to the stockyard.
And that fertilizer plant, we have every critter known to man.
So I I think if you um uh it's just gonna be a can of worms because people are darting ready to stop.
Crap, crabbing about the cats.
Well, you I mean, they crap and they pee on your door, and I mean the whole community complaining about all of this, and so we've got this common sense, few people that have chickens.
If it becomes a problem, then let's deal with it.
But right now, what has the city done?
As being meeting eight hours.
As cleaning up people's yards.
I guess I mean let's my neighbors.
Somebody turned it in.
We had an official complaint
All right.
What about this one?
What about this one?
What about this one?
If you're gonna do it to one, then you better be doing it to everybody because we have a boatload of garbage in people's backyards.
And and I say it's garbage because they say it's treasure.
You know what I mean?
It really could get to where the threats are everybody.
And I think this is compared to I don't remember what the letters so that you're non-compliant, remove them, or come to city council and propose a possible change, a reasonable change to the current ordinance.
It also said there was a $500 fine and potential jail time.
Was it a letter?
That's the current ordinance.
It was just a resuscitation of the current ordinance on file you're in violation of.
So then if they don't show up, there's my my question as as I'm not speaking on behalf of the sheriff's office or anything.
Yeah, they can't.
But if it can like they don't show up or you know, propose a solution.
Where does it go from there?
Be you know, well, I guess I could issue a complaint on behalf of the city.
Okay.
So you know, I mean, I think it was as this and I guess I'm I I don't know.
I'm kind of a half and half here, being at the sheriff's office and as a citizen.
Um I think we need to follow this process so that we do hear about it at the sheriff's office, you know, we need to continue, and this the can of worms that everybody is opening up with, whether it be a dirty yard or a dog or a um a cat or a chicken or whatever, then we need to start enforcing what is happening and working together so that the citizens are um you know um getting fair treatment um across the board, whether it is somebody that is receiving a complaint or somebody that's um making a complaint so that this stops because everybody loves each other, everybody wants to be, you know, doing what's right and making sure that things are happening that people want their chickens and people want to be able to take care of them, and um you know, that are have been doing it for years, and I think it's honestly in my opinion, um, I think it's fair to let them have their chickens, and the people, and it is gonna fizzle out.
Ryan's absolutely right.
People, it's gonna be new, it's gonna be great, it's gonna be awesome, and then they're gonna realize I don't want to do this.
I don't want to be out there in the middle of the winter taking care of chickens.
You know, so it it's it's this is absolutely this whole thing is absolutely ridiculous.
Yes, we did have an ordinance, yes, people did not follow it.
Yes, I see that every day.
People just don't do the right thing sometimes, and um, but if we pass it and we have a good plan in place, then maybe it will continue to be the right plan, and people will be okay.
Because people, even people make the people that make wrong decisions, turn out to be okay in the long run.
They they change it up, they fix a few things, and then they're great.
So I think that it is a possibility here that this is an okay thing.
I think you guys are doing the right thing by making you know, giving them giving up making them make a uh do a permit for it, have inspection, but there has to be a follow-through.
There has to be a follow-through from the city to the sheriff's office to the county.
I mean, well, obviously, the county's not involved, but you know, we have to have a follow-through here.
We all gotta work together.
Rhonda
Well, and I also feel like you know, we allow pets to some people.
The chickens are their pets.
Absolutely.
I've got 4-H kids that they're chickens right on their head.
They are pets, they have them in their house when it gets cold out.
They put diapers on them, they're their pets.
So, how can we say you cannot have a chicken, but you can have a cat or a dog, or I just feel like you know, you're allowing dogs and cats there the chickens are pets too.
They're therapy, too.
Where do you draw the line though?
I had a cow that was a pet once, too.
I was gonna say, I actually think chickens are uh classified under Montana Code as livestock, yeah.
Yep, so I mean we're a dog or uh because you can't, yeah.
Just one thing to throw out there, it's an old adage in law enforcement.
You can only police a community as much as the community wants to be policed.
And I'm really new to this, I've no I have nothing to do with the city.
Um, but I think what would and I don't there's not the manpower to do it, but in Havre, we did this.
We had tons and tons of parking complaints.
So our Havre Police Department, we went out and every night that's what we did.
Six of us would go out and write every single parking ticket in the city of Havre.
We wrote thousands, if not tens of thousands of parking tickets.
Within two months, you couldn't write a parking ticket.
And you're I I think it's gonna have to be something to that effect with the dogs, the cats.
I mean, uh the the illegal chickens.
Um as of right now, chickens are illegal.
You start writing everything.
It's gonna suck for the people, but that's the only way you can, you know, you you you if you're picking and choosing, oh, this person isn't doing well with their chickens, but you know, these good chickens are all right.
I mean, you're pretty much gonna have to go out and write every single dog ticket, cat ticket, chicken ticket, to keep people in compliance.
And I I don't know if the community is wants that, but that's the only way you can get it under control is to write every single one.
I'm sure Judge Nieskens is gonna be real tickled about that.
But is it an ordinance?
I mean, is it a law that you have to license your dog?
Yes, so why are there only 45?
Because because it doesn't no one wants to come down here, write the $25 check.
I'm not gonna stay on a soap box and point fingers.
I'm I just as much to I don't even have my life but your dog right around town.
No, my dogs are in our exam agents like there are other responsible owners and but again that's where and that's what it can be there shouldn't be the difference but that's just that we there shouldn't be a difference the law is the law is the law if if and if my dog is caught out and doesn't have a license I need to take it fine yeah and I guess that's where I'm coming from the law enforcement point is you can't pick and choose like you know could there be like okay just given that we're talking cats and dogs um I better get somebody given the fact it's a current issue that is being um debated I guess um is there would there be if hypothetically if this were to go into full enforcement would it be would people be able to be grandfathered in with the chicken thing or not grandfathered but like like if they're responsible they're you know they have it set to where it would fit if it were like right now or would they have to get rid of their chickens completely and then start new well if their application didn't get approved I mean in the meantime like as this is decided I I guess my thing is law enforcement is black and white yeah there's there's a law there's elements of the crime that are in Montana code or your city ordinances and if them if you're breaking the law and have probable cause that it was and beyond a reasonable doubt to go to court there there should be no difference between a good dog and a bad dog.
There is, I mean, that's real life, but a violation of law is a violation of law.
And I guess that's a I mean, there's not the manpower to do that here, but I mean that's the only way you can solve some of these problems is going with a zero tolerance.
Because if like you, you just admitted to a crime.
Yeah, you admitted to a crime.
So how how do you so when I'm guilty?
Somebody has a backyard chicken that is not becomes a public nuisance.
How do you not ticket them and you and that person, and then you go after that person?
I mean, that that's what makes law enforcement look bad, is when you're picking, and we do have discretion, but when you said there's a difference, there really isn't a difference in the eyes of the law.
A violation of law is a violation of law, and it makes it really hard for these guys and these guys to do their job when you become it becomes a popularity contest.
You know, oh, they're good people, they're not their dogs, don't cause any problems.
Well, it's still against the law.
The guy that's driving drunk every night that hasn't killed anybody yet is a good guy.
Do you let him go, or do you say no, enough is enough because shit's gonna happen?
So I I don't like that about law enforcement, but it is the truth.
There's needs you you need if the community has to be behind it.
If there's a violation of law, everybody gets a ticket, and then it will stop.
Because when you're upsetting about this, the most is I'm not originally from here.
I looked at Scobey as a great community.
I mean, you compare our community to Plentywood and Glasgow, and the things that this community does for its own community that surpasses bigger communities, is absolutely amazing.
And I hate what this has all this even done because it's nitpicking and it's yeah, all the gray area between the black and white.
What do you do?
And it sucks for you guys to have to make this choice.
If I may I just like to touch on a couple things real quick.
So you're absolutely right.
There's a lot of talk about uh what the about community and about uh being being a good neighbor.
And at the end of the day, I think that's what it needs to come down to.
If if there's a noise complaint, if my neighbor has raucous wild parties every night or barking dogs every night, I I think it's a terrible idea to immediately turn to weaponization of the law and weaponization of code and policy and go after my neighbor.
You know, I'm a decent person, I'm not a jerk all the time, just at work.
But if my neighbor has a barking dogs or loud parties, because I'm a decent human being and I'm a good member of my community and a good neighbor, I'm gonna walk across and say, hey, the the the rave parties you're having every night, keep it down, man.
I gotta get up to work early.
And in my experience, 99% of the time, as long as you're not an overt jerk about it, as long as you're a good neighbor and make a compelling argument, hey, look, I gotta get up early.
The parties, can we turn that down?
Nine times out of ten, though, there you're your your neighbors are willing to work with you, and so I think that's what we need to avoid is pitting neighbor against neighbor and using you know the force of the law, the force of the government.
Because having been in government for 24 years, I've seen what can happen when you weaponize policy, when you weaponize practices against people, and you start to pit people against each other, and then it becomes very, very petty.
Um, my neighbor hypothetical, my neighbor has a giant collection of clapped-out old vehicles in his front yard.
Is that hurting me?
No, but I if I I lodge complaint, yeah, I could complain about anything.
You can literally find anything in the world to complain about.
It's 2025.
There's people getting triggered over the smallest things you know to be known.
But I think first and foremost, we need to be responsible, not just you know, responsible chicken owners, but responsible human beings and responsible members of our community.
And if there's a grievance and there's a possible complaint, before we get the sheriff involved, before we go to the city council and tattle and try to weaponize the policy and the law, let's talk to our neighbors first.
And if there's a legitimate complaint, if you actually have standing, then yeah, we can talk it over.
But if there's no complaint, then there's no standing.
And we can't just nitpick and find things to be angry about.
Because Lord knows who can find other things to be angry about.
And I think we need to avoid that and you know, just be at the end of the day, be good neighbors and good human beings, and not focus on hyperbole and the what ifs.
Well, what if this?
Well, what if that?
Well, when it happens, we could we address it.
But we could live in a world of contingencies all day long.
You know, as someone who spent my entire, very much my entire life writing uh operations orders and doing reports and contingency plans and addressing the what if, you know, doing doing preparedness reports, I'm fully aware that we live in a world of contingencies, but there's nothing we can do about that until it actually happens.
So instead of saying what if, you know, what if this or what if that, how about we just prepare to act like decent human beings if that does happen?
If being the operative point.
So first and foremost, let's all just be decent human beings and good neighbors about it and not create a disturbance, not create grounds for a complaint.
And if there's a complaint, you know, that's how we uh how we tend to it as neighbors and as members of people in a small town.
That's what I have.
Speak up to me.
Well, in my fence, what little defense it is.
I got my chickens before this ordinance was put into place.
And uh, so that is defense of you, also, I would say.
If you know, I don't know.
I just think that it would be nice if it could be on a way, a simple solution would be the thing that would be beautiful for the whole community.
Because we're not, you know, you can't you can't make everybody happy, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Um I am Sarah's and Marshall's neighbor, and my banner is relatively close to their and they have chickens for a while, but I choose not to report them because it's none of my business whatever is going on in their yard.
It's their property, they pay taxes for it, and it doesn't disturb me.
With the heat that we had, I didn't feel no odor, no noise.
I have nothing to complain about.
My other neighbors have dogs.
We don't have fences.
Their dogs come sometimes into my yard, they do their thing, and in the spring, I have flowers blooming.
I did not go to the city or to the sheriff to complain.
Yeah, they ask permission, they clean it, that's all.
I have no issues with my neighbors, and I think we should keep a relationship, a decent relationship between neighbors.
If there doesn't cause an issue with me, I don't think why those patients shouldn't be allowed to have any.
None of my neighbors have complained of a complaint one about my chickens.
They've all signed the petition that we have out.
And if my name, if it is not a problem with my neighbors, why is it a problem with somebody else that you know maybe lives on the other side of town or you know, wherever I think uh, yeah, I don't know.
Wish I had the answer.
Well, I have a I have a couple talking points, as they say.
So initially, we really really were eager to have chickens again after having them in Arizona.
We're so happy that we live here.
We've been here for seven years.
It was took us a while to kind of like root, but we live here.
This is our home.
And for us, food sovereignty is such an important thing.
I think all of us, that's a relatable topic.
We're kind of the end of the line, right?
In 2020, showed us what can happen.
So chickens, chicken eggs are the perfect food.
It has all the amino acids, it has uh B5, B12, vitamin A, B6, DE.
You need those for healthy hearts, good bones, strong teeth, and it's a staple in our diet.
So Paula set the gold standard, and she's had them for 10 years.
We walk down her alley.
There's no small smell.
Sorry.
It's not your fault, but you inspired us.
And there's no smell, they're fun to listen to.
They do make sound.
Chickens.
I love my chickens.
Chickens do make a sound, but we're not advocating for roosters.
We don't want roosters.
And we want people to be responsible.
We want people to care for them just like we hope they care for their other property and their other cats and dogs.
And so that's always been our talking points is common sense, meaning they're fully contained.
As soon as it's dark, our chickens are completely locked up, super locked up.
We haven't had an increase in any animals.
If you do a quick Google video search on chickens, they're omnivores.
They love to eat venison, as ours have been.
Because you get chickens, you get baby chicks, and you have to keep them alive.
And then it's gonna take five to six months for those eggs to maybe lay one egg a day.
And we're a family of five.
We eat, we could easily eat 10 eggs a day.
So we're not we have never been.
I guess I'm just trying to say that there's so much front end time energy investment.
It's really gonna weed out the people who are gonna be irresponsible.
And I think that that's one of the the one of our selling points as a community is that we are responsible people.
You can't let the outliers, the one or two people who are gonna break the rules and do things gross to ruin it for everyone.
Because then you'd have to take away all the things that that could create a negative impact on our community.
So I appreciate that you've let us have the opportunity to have the conversation and I just think that chickens with common sense it's not gonna impact the entire community in really negative ways.
I just wanna add that I think the effort involved really will make a like good outliers it will make it a pretty easy case but uh case by case based, but like they will um be non-compliant fairly quick.
And if you know if they get their chickens, they get told no on that, they don't get their application, that really will weed it out quick.
Can I tell you some weird chicken facts?
Because everyone's like chickens are just like stupid livestock.
Do you know that chickens can recognize up to a hundred faces?
It's true.
Especially ones that feed them on.
Yeah, yeah.
And they like they recognize you and they have little conversations with you.
I guess chickens can be pets.
And while some people say my cow could be a pet or chickens are really livestock, I mean you could say that about a lot of different animals.
Your chickens love you.
And your chickens are therapy for you.
And that's what artists are.
And they they like you say, give me few food security.
Yeah, you know.
If that's ever an issue.
And that's a big thing.
I think for the past five years, five, six years as you know, one of the forefront issues.
How many chickens do you guys have?
Six.
I have seven.
And we got chicks, and there was a rooster and it was cold because we are going to be responsible.
We're not trying to and I thought that one was a little bit more.
I think all the roosters ended up on the edge of town because there's a lot of crowing over there.
I don't know who it is.
I walked that neighborhood and couldn't figure it out.
Somebody, somebody.
Do they bother you, Burl?
The roosters?
Yeah.
Yeah, but do they wake you up or do they just annoy you or what? Both.
But I think they are they are very good.
You guys are almost my neighbors.
I never knew you had chicken.
I didn't know she had a lot of things.
I knew she had chicken.
There was no way that it is no proof.
Yeah.
So I have a okay, so I have a question.
Um just I had just both a little bit of dress of the chickens and things like that, because that obviously is going to be an issue.
And we don't want any because we obviously have dogs that get loose.
Um we don't need dogs getting a hold of them or them getting, you know, if somebody tries to do it, they've been getting thrown in the trash or things like that, and maybe they don't make it into the trash.
So um has that been put into this?
Um if a chicken gets killed, like if well if it gets killed or if they just who's at fault?
No, no, no, no.
I'm just talking about pure disposal.
A chicken dies, what happens?
Like, where are we just throwing them in the trash?
Garbage cans are for household garbage only.
So, like, has that that needs I think that needs to be addressed?
Like, where are we putting the chickens?
Already people complain about the carcasses.
I uh so I went out to my garbage can last night in the middle of the night, opened the lid, and somebody I believe put a carcass in it.
Of a I know there's birds that get thrown in the hotel garbages from the hunters and what's right.
Right, so like I just think that was a bit that should be addressed if if this gets all passed through.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I mean I it just I think it needs if we're gonna put this into you know what I do you see when I'm saying like probably just not for sure.
It probably could be dealt with more as it is because I've had dead cats in mine.
And I assume that's I don't know.
I just it's just something I'm I I think that's just uh something needs to be dealt with that kind of thing that you so do you see it okay.
So what I'm I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are a chicken owner, you have this permit, and then maybe Steve or whoever's going to come in and check and inspect chickens, and they see a dead chicken there.
Like that needs to be addressed.
What what's your disposal?
Do you see where I'm going with this?
Can you bury it?
Like a pet?
That's what I'm wondering.
Like, are you going like make sure like the disposal of these chickens?
Because if my so I have German Shepherd, sure that's the age of the short.
I don't know.
Um, like if my dog gets out, you're not just throwing that in my garbage can out.
We took ours on there, like our whatever.
We've had that.
So Steve is that energy?
Is that going to be advertising enforcing?
Well, so when they if that happens, it's gonna have to go through zoning first.
Then you're the one to look, and then if there's complaints, does it come back to you like that?
Then I'm gonna take my complaint to Samantha, and Samantha will file it with the court.
But the uh before it gets passed and everything, it's gonna have because zoning has to go through and define chicken coop in the zoning, what a chicken coop is, how big a chicken coop can be, and then all the setbacks got to be followed, and then we have to add that in as an accessory structure in the zoning code.
Well so there will be a whole separate permit zoning permit for a chicken coop compared to the zoning permit we have now.
Right.
I just meant like all through the year, like the complaints and the inspections and uh what all that adds to your list.
Yeah, this well, they haven't seen my price tag yet for you, so just a quick question on that, because I'm not familiar with that.
Well, but hold on, let me answer her question first.
Um, so if there's a noise or smell complaint, that does go to the sheriff's department because there's already that's already on just like too much dog crap in the yard, no different if it's a chicken.
So now he's not gonna go in and pull measurements of the building and then inspect the fence and do this and that.
He's gonna simply address the complaint of odor or noise or whatever, and hopefully just issue the citation, let Judge Nieskens sort it out from there.
Everything else is a steep thing.
Basically, the inspections and the zoning portion of it.
Yeah.
Before you get the chickens, yeah, it'll be before and then and then during.
Yeah.
And then once you could make up a new job, and I could be the new chicken partner.
Okay.
You're hired.
You can have zoning too while you're at it.
Or I have to be the dog catcher or the cat catcher.
Yeah.
You know, Alan.
I've sat in those chairs for five years, and believe me, I know the round of patient of opening a calibers.
If you're gonna this, then you better be prepared to do this, this, this, and this, because I've been there, and it's not.
I mean, you don't have any defense because an ordinance is an ordinance, and you have to either do them all or turn a blind eye, and then you have this, but you've got bigger problems.
What's the process now?
Is uh go to uh this potential ordinary ordinance you guys vote on whether to proceed or do you so yeah, this is the public hearing right now, further down the agenda.
We will vote to approve this proposed ordinance 25-03.
You vote to approve it or not approve it.
Yep, and then it's good if there's two readings, so then it would be on the agenda for the next meeting as well, and that's what happened with the land situation when dollar store was coming in.
It passed one, people came in, got excited about it, and then the council denied the second one, so then it didn't happen.
So it's been an hour and a half.
Are you guys ready to vote on that?
I mean, have you heard enough?
We can sit here and talk.
I don't so I run the meeting.
I mean, have you heard enough, you guys?
Is there to where you can do a vote so we can let you do on with your so I do about a question?
Samantha has to leave really here in like 15 minutes.
So the point about the dead carcasses and the straw and that kind of stuff.
I feel that should be in here because with our now that we haul our trash to Plentywood, which is not a city thing, again, county thing, not city, county.
They are telling us what we can and can't put in our dumpsters now.
So if we can't put this stuff in our dumpsters and it starts ending up in there, this could go away really quick, assuming it passes.
Because then that then the county will be involved and then it will be a big deal when we have to start hauling the trash back to here, sorting through it, and I can tell you the county commissioners and the the land landfill folks won't be pleased with anybody if that has to happen.
So almost forgotten.
We have 247 signatures of people in the city limits.
Did you get that verified with the clerk at the courthouse?
Do I need to do that?
Yes.
Okay.
Then we can do that.
Yep.
She would love to.
Okay, fun.
And then we're going next.
How many signatures did you have?
Uh we counted 247.
But I just collected them from three of us, so we'll go through and make sure there's no duplicates.
I'm just gonna say I was the devil that would get on the other side.
And I was told there was a lot of people that signed it so that we're treating on the next agenda.
And I think maybe uh again a lot of people that should be like, well, I'll sign that one, but I already signed that like that before we make the rest of the actually.
So I think that and maybe the council could think about comments today and if there's anything else that wanted to.
So Steph motion to approach.
When she takes it up is Christy, Christy will look through and get rid of all the duplicates.
Also get rid of anybody who is not a member of the voting public motion.
And that's not what my comment was.
Like I talked to several people came to me that they were against it and you know Steve Belt pressure and files and just from my standpoint, like today there was a lot of people here, and the last time we had anybody else here was when you know the we can get the possibility of the dollar store was going in.
Uh we'd like to see you guys here ready.
We can't really we hear a lot of things that are set out in the public, but we can't do anything with it.
If we we can't do anything with secondhand information, that's why I received plenty of calls today, because I told said person who said, Well, so and so is against it, or so and so's we'll call them and tell them to specifically call me because I can't vote based on secondhand information.
And that's basically the position is like you go out and you talk to these people that feel this way, they also feel this way, and again, they all need to voice their opinion to the people that it matters.
And unfortunately, like Shauna has you know talked about previously, is people would rather put it on Facebook than call the sheriff's department.
And that's a real problem because it if you're not willing to to wage a complaint, then there's nothing that can be done about it.
A lot of opening you can be rattling out neighbors, and and that's the thing, but don't bitch about it then.
You know, I mean don't put it on Facebook if you're not willing to go up to that person and say, hey, let's figure this out.
You know, well, I've also had where you're a big user, girl.
You had a couple different people.
That's where you get your info for the paper.
And they told me it was now.
He said you get a picture of the dogs in your yard, and you got it.
I said, Okay, I got a picture of the dogs in my yard.
I well, first I talked to them and told them, you know what, would you please keep your dogs from crapping in my yard?
Oh, I remember that.
And so then they said, Well, yeah, yeah.
Okay, well, I didn't ever did happen for three years.
So I finally I'm like, you know what?
I'm sick of this.
They're killing my shrubs, they're you know, killing my grass.
So I took pictures of them.
Steve didn't show up.
I called him, I said, I got the dog, they're right here.
I'm holding them.
There I was, standing there holding.
Nothing happened.
So I got a camera, and I got it on film, and I took that to the sheriff's office, and then they finally did something.
So sometimes you gotta go the extra mile.
Yeah, it is true.
And I mean, just say you know, just to keep everybody aware, we have the sheriff, we have the sheriff and we have the deputy, and we have we do have a lot of situations going on.
Okay, Shauna, I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you.
Um, so what supposedly that there this has been right?
I was gonna say this has been a great meeting.
There's been a lot of good points brought up.
There have been some points brought up that we need to address between the city attorney, public works, zoning that would have to be in the ordinance change.
So when we get further down on the agenda, what we're what I'm going to propose is that uh I'm gonna ask for a motion to push the first reading to the November 25th meeting because we're not we're not in a position to vote to approve this first reading yet, okay.
So I guess this gives you guys another three weeks to ramp up your to recite your own.
So you're not voting on this amount.
No, nope, nope.
Nope, because there's a couple things we need to look into first.
Um, you know, things that we didn't consider like trash.
Um we're gonna have to, since we're pretty sure we can't put it in the dumpsters in your alley, even though maybe you already are or have or whatever, you sneak it in there, no different than I don't know, sneaking a quart of oil in there, I suppose, but um we just gotta have it in here.
So the first reading will actually be November 23rd, then again.
25th, yep.
25th, yep, November 25th.
Second reading would be December 9th.
Will that be posted so we know okay?
I mean the ordinance.
You you can come get it, it's not just gonna be its own separate thing.
You can request um a copy of it, but once it's fixed.
Yeah, like we just have draft copies now.
So I mean you're welcome to the current draft, but it's gonna change.
Yeah.
Um so this was just a starting point, basically.
Yeah, but we will have copies of the draft.
They'll be ready.
Sonia, can I say they'll be ready by the Friday afternoon before the next meeting?
The draft of the ordinance up for now.
Okay, because that's when we post the agenda.
Yes, so Friday before the meeting.
I just have a quick question.
What is the best way for people to reach out?
Do you want them to email a certain do you want them to write letters to certain?
Do you want all the things?
They they can drop off letters, all of the above.
See all of the above.
We have we have a drop box for letters to be dropped off.
We have email.
The city website has our numbers and our email addresses and so I mean I always I'm always glad to hear from people because like I said, I'm gathering information from the people.
You know, that's what we're here for.
It's I try to keep my I mean I always have an opinion of some sort, but I try to stay neutral until I gather enough information to make a decision on it.
So well, thanks for hearing us.
Yep.
So if there's no other if there's no other comments, I'm going to close the public hearing.
Make sure we get Ryan in there as the chicken cup in the archives.
Yes.
Next agenda.
Yeah.
Okay, so close the public hearing at 10 09.
All right.
Well, thank you guys for coming.
You're welcome to stay.
The rest of the meeting's gonna be awfully boring because we purposely left a lot of things off.
There's a notepad out there if you can see your names on in case Sonia misses you.
Okay, unless you have a chat.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Huh?
Do we really?
Okay.
You're two.
We're not allowed to have unloads it once around.
I wanted to put Arizona delivery really hard.
We'll see if you're hanging out there.
No, I mean captive or turkey or finding it.
Well, it'd be okay.
Yeah, it probably wouldn't be good.
I've been doing this a lot.
It's got a better taste in this.
Okay, I we'll put me in touch, thanks, Sam.
I just really don't like the opening choosing.
Yeah, I don't think.
And see my problem is public college.
Well, I was just gonna say, would you buy it they didn't put their not that these bad things?
I mean, it's just for you guys know that.
Right.
But yeah, I hear all this.
That was the envelope.
Well, they just called it.
I have an easy so that's just like my baby.
Mine too, not a recommended file.
Um okay, so public comments.
Is there any public comment on any public here?
I don't think we have any public.
Oh, yeah.
Can I be a public person?
Sure.
Um, I have an idea on the licensing of the animal.
Okay.
So I deal with a lot of loose dogs.
Yes.
Um, and when we get them in.
Um, I don't know if we can push this, but when we get them in, um and start, I mean, obviously it needs to be pushed by maybe finding them for being loose and things like that or whatever needs to happen.
I I think the ordinance allows that.
Right.
So um uh what about pushing with along with that fine that they license the animal.
That that's that's a separate fine.
Yeah.
And I isn't there what there's a dog at large fine, and I think your animal at large, and then there's a non-licensed.
See, like there was a chronic complaint with uh with a household on the corner, um in a big fence yard.
Um I was told that those people did call the sheriff's department to uh file a complaint, and I know for a fact those dogs are not licensed because I can look, and they weren't so that would have been two offenses, and there probably would have been enough there to have those dogs removed.
So you know, this was last summer and within the year ago there.
So and I get some people will reach out to me or the council and we'll we'll say you have to call, you have to call sheriff's department.
You don't have to call 911, you can call the was it 2697 or whatever, whatever it is, and then they just they don't they don't want their name tied to a whatever so really it it has to be people have to file the complaint and then it has to be enforced.
I I'm not I don't even know if I want to hear any more rules on our current ordinances with basically noise ordinance or dogs at large or licensing because we're probably already over at the top on them.
If anything, we could probably scale them back for SCOBY and not for you know Sacramento, California.
Right.
I mean a lot of a lot of people uh you know I call it their own animals, like we've lost it they've lost their dog you know so we kind of put it out there um as on behalf yeah well there was one that was on the Facebook page that wasn't even licensed like you guys could have wrote that guy ticket he had the dog on your Facebook in the sheriff's department I'm like we missed an opportunity to teach that person to license his dog so that's what I'm saying like just so but that's not an US problem.
Maybe not even like how I think that's where I was like kind of you know the first thing the sheriff or the deputy should check oh this dog ain't even licensed.
So there's gotta when I'm reading those things um I don't know better because I go through and I try to breed that first like is this dog on here I but reading I don't know if they don't have the tag at them.
Yeah I mean you just look they don't have the tag and I get dogs lose tags.
Yeah exactly I get it but not every loose dog loses a tag.
Yeah you know those things those clasps are it's not coming off unless it's forced off well then one of the reasons to have the unless the call for those instances when they disappear and show up somewhere so you know who's damn dog because when they come to license it that proves because they bring with them their proof of vaccination.
So that's one less thing everyone needs to worry about is we got a form right here on on file that shows this dog is up to date on vaccinations.
So now call the homeowner, get them back, do whatever.
But yeah, we're we were really missing the boat there.
Dog dogs is gonna be the next one.
Yep, and we're gonna we're we're gonna rehash this whole thing with dogs here because I said it multiple times already.
Pandora's box has been kicked open.
I've heard I personally I don't think it really needs to be the next one.
I think it needs to be in the now thing because it's no, I mean people are gonna say they're gonna bring it to us.
As far as we go working together, I think it needs to be really got on top of because I don't know how much more working together though we our part's been done.
Yeah, just getting people over here as working together.
I'm not saying done.
I see I'm saying that we'll get when I get a dog in there, or if people get we get the calls, then those tickets obviously need to be written, and whatever needs to happen, happen, and then go from there.
So but um or giving them back, like sending them straight to you guys to get this stuff done.
Yeah, because if you you get a dog call, now you're utilizing your resources.
The sheriff is to go look for a dog, but why not get compensated for it?
Because I almost guarantee you there's a there's a three-to-one chance that that dog's not licensed.
Right.
For one, the licensed pet owners, they up, they can get out, but they're usually the ones that aren't running around or lost.
I'm saying usually, I'm not saying I'm 100%, but yeah.
No, no, I was just trying to figure out a better way this can be handled, and not to say that we're not exhausted.
There's a lot going on.
Yeah.
Um.
Yep, and that's, and that right there proves my other point.
It it if you're on a dog call, ticket.
Ticket with them with everything that you can within your realm.
So you don't have to deal with that person or that dog again.
You know, is is Judge Neeskin's gonna throw it out?
Maybe.
I don't know.
If the tickets from with Logan and Samantha working with them, if the tickets are written well, he's following through with them.
He's not just shredding everything that he was a while ago accused of just you know throwing out everything.
So yeah.
Okay, on that note, have a good day.
Okay, thanks.
Thank you.
Okay.
Utility clerk.
Yeah.
Uh Janet, have anything?
I don't think so.
She doesn't stay.
Yeah.
She didn't stay.
Okay, public works.
Uh uh.
Garbage truck.
Garbage truck.
I haven't got my weekly update.
That's tomorrow.
Wednesdays, I get it.
Uh, but uh, well, except for our regular one running our backup one.
So hopefully we don't have to pay for that rental anymore.
Uh but the two fire hydrants that were broke are now fixed and working.
Uh the one by Niemont is working right now.
I'll have to take it back apart again because somebody had torn it apart before and not fixed it correctly, so there's another piece I need.
Because right now it won't hold the oil in the cap, so it'll seize up again until I get a new upper shaft for it.
So that's that's on order, so I'll tear that apart again and fix it again once it comes.
Um but I think that's pretty much it in the last week, anyways.
Not a whole lot went on.
Okay.
Anyone have any questions for public orchestra?
Green dumpsters?
Must be getting close here.
Paul said there's still some that are getting full, so I told him to keep an eye on them, and once if it starts getting too cold, we'll pull them, or once they start diminishing the amount of stuff in them, we'll pull them.
So zoning.
Well, apparently we'll have a zoning meeting next week.
On the 12th.
Okay, it would be nice to hash out some of the zoning.
You know, so hopefully two of Brad and Bridget were both here.
Yep.
Um so I know Mike Thievan is still on zoning, right?
Yeah, Mike Demon, and I'm sure Casey'll be here.
The only one that's always questionable is if still's in town.
Okay, and I know like Mike reached out to me personally, and and he's he's against the chicken thing, so he uh he'll have another whatever.
Well, we'll go about it as basically if this gets passed, what zoning would want.
Because then more than likely to do that change, we'll have to have another public hearing to change the zoning at that time too.
So and then meanwhile, we have that on November 26th, we have that public hearing for the standalone drawer access.
A lot going on.
Yeah, yes, sir.
Anyone have any comments for zoning?
We don't have any permits to approve.
Uh fire chief.
Actually, let's go.
I'm sorry, study commission report, Greg.
Anything nothing new to add.
Okay.
I see the surveys on the county's website.
Is it out now?
Okay.
Yeah.
What I do like about that postcard and that they put out there is is that there's a singular saying there that says democracy's not a uh spectator sport.
It should say uh constitutional republic isn't so in other words you know stand up and have your say your piece or forever hold it.
Okay, so fire chief report.
I think did he we talked about the turnout year that got damaged at the trading?
Yep.
Okay, so I think Wyatt's gonna order uh the new jackets that need to be replaced.
Feed is this weekend steak feed steak feed is gonna be a busy Saturday Saturday hopefully a football victory followed by the greasiest steak you can get.
Yeah, it's a fact.
I usually sneak two when nobody's looking.
We also um okay set up our sheriff report.
I guess we kind of no sheriff, but uh this would have been the meeting he would have brought the statistics, I believe for the month if he would have had them.
I'll get those for the next meeting.
Okay, yeah, Sean said which is fine.
I'm if he comes to one meeting a month, that tickles my fancy beyond tickling.
I messed that one up.
Uh council comments.
And if you say the word chickens help you.
I think we need to go with the t-shirts that we thought I showed you.
It would be funny.
You buy them all where I wasn't lying when I said it's nice to see this many people.
But it's frustrating that people only show up for certain things.
And it's quite frustrating going down to Cromwell's or where have you, and you hear this, that, or the other.
And a lot of it is secondhand information.
So you can't, you know.
I tried to get that that point across to Christopher today.
Like, I don't care that you're telling me they're a yes or a nobody until I hear it from them, it doesn't matter.
So if we could have this much participation in some of the other stuff, that is probably more pressing than whether or not we're gonna have the C word in town or a store in town.
That would be great.
Well, the the frustrating thing is when they say with everything else going on, this is where all your energy's focused.
Okay, I get it.
There are things there we could we could look at every single function we do and tweak it and fix it a little bit, a lot, whatever.
But tell me, tell me what the other things are.
I was still figure it out.
I almost did too.
I'm like, you know, I just we ended up getting the last 10 minutes.
We went down the weeds trail of God knows what they were talking about, and uh, you know, tried to get everyone back on on tasks.
Well, the simple fact of the matter is too, is what really gets under my skin is there's an ordinance in place.
They're already illegal to have in town.
Yeah.
And contrary to popular belief, the ordinance is older than 10 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I I have a I do have a question on that for either Sonia or Steve, because I seem to remember that we have set out call notices before.
What do you what's a call notice?
Kill it.
You have to kill your birds.
Oh, I see.
Okay.
I don't remember doing that, but I just know we see the chickens because we see over the fence in the garbage truck.
No, true.
But if we could figure out how to get people to uh it's no lie, we all know it.
It's not just uh asking for permission for this or coming late in the game.
Most people are under the opinion that I'll just do it and ask forgiveness later.
Yeah, so I'll just I'll just do it because nobody else is giving the ordinances of being enforced.
Why would I not?
Well, and the enforcement of ordinances is a is an overall issue anyway.
You know what's funny is like you've been here before, I've been here before this Sonia.
You can maybe verify, but it's it's situations like this that start that well, maybe the city needs its own police department.
Because like we're we're we're we're 10 feet away from the start line of that conversation.
I hope to god we don't get any closer because that's uh you know it it's it's we've tried that already.
Yeah, yeah, we can do but it's not like Ryan's looking for a job, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, there we go.
He could he could just lost his audience of course and the the bigger issue in that is too is what so the question was raised what do you do with them if you have to confiscate them?
Well, we don't have a pound for the dogs, we don't have or cats, we don't have any facilities to hold them at.
They get hauled to the vet clinic, dogs do, and then I think they just charge a fee to the county, so it would have to be the same deal, wouldn't it?
I mean, I I wasn't gonna say that, but that's the only thing that came to mind.
Impounding a dog or cat.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, so anyway.
And maybe that needs to be in there.
We have no way to impound these chickens, so if they have to be impounded, they will be killed for the record.
I did have one other price.
I'll take it on.
The uh governor just opened up a new thing yesterday, I think, for a $50,000 grant for rural communities.
Uh I think it's for for new businesses or to drum up new business.
So I don't know if that's something that could be looked into for the hospital or for your fire hall or or what, but free money is free money, we should go after it, wouldn't we, Ken?
Yeah, yes.
Okay, any other council comments.
Okay, moving on.
Siren update.
Did you get a hold of Red Tail?
So yes, I talked with Red Tail, and somebody at the sheriff's office already told Red Tail to put it on that other pole.
So I was talking to Red Tail about that.
And I said, Well, we're worried that other pole is not strong enough because I said when the siren goes off now, it tweaks it.
And so he suggested maybe you could get a new pole put in there.
Or I brought up the idea with him about maybe getting it on Nimon's Tower.
I haven't got the specs yet.
Seth told me to talk to Chad once I got the specs to see if Nemo would allow that or lease it out or whatever they do.
Yeah, there's just a load.
You know, we have a it's an engineered load for the tower, and you can't exceed it.
I'm sure it wouldn't be a lot of weight.
But so is it the wooden pole one or the big cell tower?
The big cell tower that's above Rasmussen Insurance.
Because there's also a wooden pole on that building, too.
Yeah, I think that's just for the um there's one little thing hanging on.
It was for our timing for sealed electronics timing.
This would be on the tower.
Okay, and then I'm sure they would just use be able to use the power again from the fire hall, you know, that runs the big siren now.
It's because the tower got denied.
Was it is there any reason that anything that was gonna go on that tower can't go on Nimon's Tower if it meets uh it just depends on a flip if we if there's room for it, is the big thing is you know we have spacing for our radios for the for the different you know so you can do that.
So far each each thing and so can it go on the lighting at the baseball field?
Well, I mean it might, but see, those are never been engineered, so we don't know if they would hold it or not.
No, there's already been one that's blown over in the land, so yeah.
I so I it's a matter of time before another one blows over, and you have to have three-phase power.
So we wait, put it on a pole new hospital and point in south.
I mean, it's always an option, too.
I mean, like he said, and he said it, you know, there's no really the only way he looks at height is he looks at the community and see how high they could reach with a bucket truck in the community.
It's usually what they do.
Because they said, Well, our bucket truck don't go higher than 35.
None of them in town.
No, no.
Doesn't I think short lines goes higher, doesn't it?
No, it won't reach it either.
No, so that's what I told him.
I said we would have to go, you know, we like if the city's bucket truck was 35 feet, and that's it.
So which seems to work at the water tower because we could just reach the one at the water tower if we park right underneath the pickleball court.
Yeah, we can find the money to get rid of that old water tower, put a new tank next to the other tank up on the hill and turn that into a pickleball court.
There you go.
Um okay, moving on.
So at this time I'd entertain a motion that we move our first reading of ordinance number 25 03 to the November 25th meeting to allow for uh additional research and corrections.
Yeah, corrections to the proposed ordinance change.
I'll move that we move it to November 25th for the first reading.
I'll second it.
Okay, so motion made and seconded to move our first reading.
Any further discussion?
Uh in that is it included that they have to license all their animals?
Is it in the ordinance?
I don't think so.
Because I know there's one person that wants chickens that don't have their dogs licensed.
So I think it needs to be included in there that if there are other animals that aren't licensed, they're not responsible enough to have chickens.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I mean we can run that when Samantha reaches out to you regarding the how to word the garbage situation, bring that up to her.
And maybe she'll just want to get together.
Um, we have three weeks.
Yeah.
So maybe we can down every Wednesday, so we could just schedule something up.
Yeah, we we could do that.
And if you guys are reading have any questions or don't like the words, I mean now's the time.
I feel like you know it's all fresh in our head.
Um again, we're I'm getting off topic, but uh no, I think we are close.
A couple of tweets.
So you need to change the numbers too.
Yeah, like it says in here, you know, five.
Steve said they're sold in groups of three, so do we just up it to six?
Yeah, you know, they seem to think eight is the magic number.
I think one of them has eight.
Yeah, I so six would be kind of a magic number.
One of them has more than six, that's for sure.
Yeah.
And one who said they have six, I'm not sure that's yeah, that's fact.
Yeah.
And we need to put in here a provision that we have by signing the application, we can spot check at any time.
Yes.
Um I was thinking about that, but again, that would have that would have started probably another 10 or 15 minute conversation.
Oh, your church.
It'd be no different than like our one that we have for water.
We have if we want to go in there and check your meter, we have that right, you know.
So it'd be just a lot similar to lines of that.
I would check with Samantha and make sure that's legal because do we have do we have that right with the dogs?
Do we get to come on your property and write a ticket when you you're not licensed?
Well, well, no, this would just be a license.
This is an inspection of the it's an inspection of the inspection of what they're saying their application said their facilities gonna look like and how many birds they have.
Their license is contingent upon.
That's just it.
I mean, we're making it so that we have the right to inspect.
So that gives us one more thing that uh you know, hopefully before a complaint, but I don't there's so we're just voting to move it the basically to kick the can down the road to do further research.
Yep, because we gotta we're not voting in the first reading.
Because we're gonna make the ordinance more the way we want it if we uh if we allow it.
So we gotta make sure the ordinance is set first.
That's what I'm saying.
I just want to be clear.
That doesn't become law what we're voting on.
So essentially we're tabling for a point of information, pretty much.
And then that doesn't become law until after the a month after the second reading.
And 30 days after 30 days after the second reading.
But then the zoning process starts.
Well, so that's the thing though.
See, once you get the first their second reading, we can start we could schedule the public hearing for the zoning.
Yeah, right.
I mean it's just the way it is, and if people come and ask for it, they're just gonna have to wait until the zoning is changed.
Well, like is there is there language in this ordinance now that pertains to zoning approval or zoning?
I think so.
It says it has to be all current zoning, yeah.
Yeah, prior to keeping any of the chickens party seeking to keep chickens, shall obtain a zoning permit and then obtain a permit from the city permit fee established and city council may revise at the time.
And so right now in the zoning, there's nothing with chickens, all there is is accessory buildings, so yeah, it could be treated like a garage, which so then your chicken coop could be a thousand square feet because that is what an accessory building can be.
Yeah, so that's why we need to go into the zoning and change that so you don't have a thousand square foot chicken coop in the backyard.
That's that's uh that's a chicken farm.
Yeah.
So well, I mean, doesn't matter if there's still only allowed six chicken?
Give them an inch.
Yeah, exactly.
Just an inch.
Yeah.
So yeah, I don't know if we need to table or if we need to actually vote to move she told me, Samantha told me table it.
Well, she told me how to just make a motion to move the first reading.
So that's I'm just doing what she told me to do before she left.
Okie dokie.
But um you know, the whole intent isn't to make this so complicated that it's in that everybody gives up on it.
The intent is that the people who really want them will go through the steps.
The people who don't want them, there's some things there that protect them as well, but then it gives the city everything we need to actually enforce it instead of this sip situation with our current ordinances.
You know, we don't have an ordinance officer, so we can't we don't have the manpower to do it.
Well, there's no teeth in them.
Yeah, we have to rely on social force.
And this is moving forward, this is exactly the approach we're gonna use if there's another change, someone brings up a change to whatever.
We're gonna go through just like this.
Okay, how can we put teeth in it?
It's a it's a lot easier for us to enforce our own stuff that way, too.
Depending on somebody else to enforce our.
I mean, we're doing all the enforcement.
If I'm inspecting it and then failing inspection, and I just tell Samantha, and Samantha submits the right to the court and that's it.
I think the other thing this does is it demonstrates to the community that we did our due diligence and just weren't twisted or shown over because we're all there.
Yeah, or kind of takes our opinion out of it.
I mean it's more of a you guys are new.
So is essentially what's gonna happen next meeting is it's gonna be it's gonna be a public hearing without it being a public hearing because we're gonna hear all the same comments again.
I believe not everybody will come, but everybody who talked will come.
The core true believers.
Yep.
Is there a way that we can hold it to a half hour?
I mean you run the meetings, but my suggestion would be.
Oh, you can just open up public comment though, right?
It's not an actual doesn't have to be a yeah, it won't be a public hearing, but it's gonna it's it's gonna appear like one because of the amount of public that's yeah, the the amount of speaking that's gonna be spoken.
Is what I see happening.
Yeah.
And then the same thing, was it no so December what 12th or whatever our first meeting is?
Well that that one too.
Then is there a way that five minutes is five minutes?
They can use five minutes.
It can be split or it can be all at once because I mean Yeah, Marshall got up and spoke multiple times.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I I I get that people have a right to voice their concerns, but I mean there's gotta be some respect towards other people's time too.
So when I went when I went to the only mayor's conference I've been to in the last four years, this was the most talked about topic.
Chickens.
No.
Public word in public speaking.
That's why we added public comment again.
That's why it's not here twice.
And basically, yep, just give lay out some parameters, but um more cities are sued for their public not being able to speak versus anything else.
So we just okay, five minutes.
Well, I think if it would have got unruly, we could have stopped it.
It was it was back and forth.
Marshall spoke more than five minutes.
I you know don't really care.
I feel if you watch those hearings on Capitol Hill, I I yield my time my five minutes to so and so.
You know, if they really wanted to do it, they could have done that.
So but I felt it went exactly how I thought it was gonna go.
Well, I thought there'd be more naysayers here.
I think honestly.
Yeah, yeah.
I think I think too, when we have public comment the next go-round, we can just ask if it pertains to the drafted ordinance.
Yeah.
If you have any issues with the ordinance, you've already given your opinion on the whole process, and he should do you know, you want it, you don't want it.
We're taking we're taking public opinion on the drafted ordinance right now.
That would make sense.
Yeah.
Keep it.
So that's why I was hoping we could have it ready, Sonia, by the Friday before.
Now I'm not gonna ask you or anybody to email it to these 12 emails.
They can come pick it up, but we'll put it out there that the draft copy of the proposed ordinance will be available Friday from 2 to 4 from 2 to 3:30 at City Hall.
And you know, maybe I'll have a digital copy.
I can shoot some emails.
I don't care, but I'm not gonna send a hundred emails on the other.
Yeah.
So um, okay, so we're still discussing our moving the first reading.
Any other discussion?
Okay, hearing none, all those in favor?
Aye.
Okay, any public comment out there?
Steve, you're not public, so you don't get none.
Neither is Sonia, so tough.
Just sit there and keep taking notes.
Upcoming agenda items.
What uh we must not uh missed out on much because I know we purposely wanted to kind of bare bones this one because I knew it was gonna be uh 30 to 60 minutes of conversation.
But well, congratulations to everybody who won the election by nobody running against us.
Seth, you get to run in a couple years.
Maybe I always think that there's people here who are gonna this will be their spark to, you know, I'm gonna go.
And I I truly do think people think like that for a minute, and then the sexiness of it wears off, and I go I don't want that headache.
Well, and that's kind of where my comment came from.
The Facebook thing is you know, the loudest ones usually post it on Facebook and won't won't come to the meetings.
That's not the way it works.
Yeah, come to the meeting, voice your opinion, we'll listen to you.
Well, the one we invite everybody to come.
We want to hear your viewpoints and stuff.
Yeah, but the way to not to win me over is sure not by calling me uh lacking common sense in a moron.
Yeah.
So I know.
I wonder if Samantha read that.
Like she did.
I still want to know who this is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to know who the person is who named me as a consumer of politics.
That's right.
Yeah, that's the one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, really?
What?
Oh, yeah.
She's bribing them with with their eggs.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, did we vote?
Yes.
Yes, we did.
Or on upcoming agenda items in case you got lost.
Count chickens as they walk by trying to fall asleep.
Don't count your chickens before they're all right.
Uh moving on, consent items.
Um I move.
Yeah, I want to take a motion to move and second.
Good.
Thank you.
Any uh comments, questions, discussion?
Hearing done.
All those in favor?
Aye.
Okay, at this time, I will entertain a motion to adjourn this meeting.
Moved.
Motion to adjourn until no.